True to form, last nights prog got me going !

[dance2drop]

Again, last nights prog was a shambles. At least however DD came to some who voted UKIP for their views which makes a change.

However, what were the Beeb thinking of having that arse of a football player on there. How rude and offensive was he ? I had heard that he had done a stretch. Beeb should be ashamed of themselves. As one of the texters on QT said - what next on the programme "Jack the Ripper" ! The lady UKIP member however stood her ground and I thought she was very good.

Another thing, as there have been a number of (can I say it) coloured gentleman who have voted UKIP - how can this party be racist as all the other main parties claim.

By slagging off and smearing the UKIP in the last few weeks prior to the European elections did them no good. What a result was that !

[Teddy Bear]

It was pure evil, with the only saving grace that any half intelligent person would have seen through it. 32 minutes of a 60 minute programme trying to demonize UKIP.
(Available to be seen again for the next 12 months here)

Even the Conservative representative made himself look like an absolute arrogant buffoon, especially with his statement that 'they (the present parties) were the real grown-ups'. UKIP needs to start recounting how some of these 'grown-up' MPs have behaved, with a whole host of cheating, lying, stealing, incidents.

As for the footballer, Joey Barton, I felt with him the BBC had reached a new low. I looked up his history - and here's an excerpt:

Much like Terry, Barton’s personal history vibrates with the controversy, but perhaps more disturbingly than his Chelsea counterpart. In 2002, Barton extinguished a cigar in the eye of his teammate Jamie Tandy. In 2007, a fight between himself and teammate Ousmane Dabore ended with Dabore bleeding from the ears. Speaking on the issue four years later, Barton expressed little remorse: “Frankly, Ousmane is a little pussy. Where I come from, when you fight there is no rule. You fight ‘til it’s over.’” Soon after the Dabore exchange, Barton assaulted a man outside a Liverpool McDonalds, punching him twenty times in the head. Barton served 77 days in prison for his crime. Yet, if not for a psychotic outburst in his team’s season ending match this year, for much of the public Barton had been rehabilitated. Granted, his bizarre antics against Manchester City (resulting in a 12 game suspension next year) poisoned much of the work he had done in rebranding himself, but his example would serve John Terry well.

Sometime in 2009, Barton opened a Twitter account and began randomly posting philosophical messages. His tweets ranged from quotes by George Orwell (“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.”) and Fredrich Nietchze (“whoever feels predestined to see and not to believe will find all believers too noisy and pushy; he guards against them.”) to political diatribes (“Why are British troops in conflict zones risking their lives, on America’s behalf? Supporting a fascist regimes ideologies? Bring them home.”) to an homage to the Smiths (“There is a light that never goes out”………The Smiths! Best song ever written. Thanks marr / mozza for getting me through that drive….”). He visited art galleries and told soccer fans all about them.

Then in 2010, Barton glommed on to one of the oldest tricks in the book: the mustache. The midfielder promised not to shave his newly acquired mustache until Newcastle recorded a victory. It didn’t take too long, by August 22, Barton and his Newcastle teammates had thumped Aston Villa. Still, by this point, Barton had tapped into his inner Magnum P.I. His Twitter feed and mustache drew attention away from his clearly unstable nature. Sure, we used to equate mustaches with totalitarianism (have their ever been two more famous mustaches than those of Uncle Joe Stalin and Adolph Hitler?), but today even Michael Jordan rocks a mustache that many argue looks very similar to that of a certain genocidal German.

Today’s famous mustaches range from the conservative American patriot Ron Swanson (Parks and Rec) to the businesslike Stringer Bell (The Wire) to ubiquitous “ironic” or hipster mustaches (really, a character like Swanson and Bell unto itself – see Jude Law for a celebrity example). People began talking about the quirky, mustachioed twitter happy Barton, not the thuggish freak that served over two months in prison.

Joey Barton’s angled masterpiece was a combination of Brooklyn Flea artisan and Toledo used car salesman; in other words, “creative everyman,” if everyman only sold tricked out El Caminos that came with a free Rites of Spring discography. With a mustache, Joey Barton’s previous violent outbursts became ironic acts of cognitive dissonance. “I beat that man senseless because of how futile I think violence is, don’t you get it? I tweet Nietchze!”

One only needs to read his views on Israel to see just how ignorant this lout is, but one will get an idea as to why he might be attractive for the BBC. I knew I would find a negative view expressed by him on Israel when I heard him blaming (@43mins into the programme) American Jews for being responsible for the invasion of Iraq. Dimbleby immediately shifted the subject rather than confront this moron.

I want the British public to remember that they are forced to pay for this evil rubbish.

[Teddy Bear]

I see many more have felt the BBC reached a new low.

'Voting for UKIP is like picking the best of four ugly girls': Footballer Joey Barton apologises for 'offensive' remarks on Question Time as viewers of BBC show complain it has hit a 'new low'

• Queens Park Rangers midfielder compared voting Ukip to picky up ugly girls
• Ukip MEP for the north west, Louise Bours, said comment was 'offensive'
• Viewers accused the BBC of taking Question Time to a 'new low'
• Barton admits nerves and he'd prefer a 87,000 crowd 'any day of the week'

By John Stevens and Martin Robinson

The BBC has today been accused of turning Question Time into a ‘joke’ after footballer Joey Barton compared voting for Ukip to picking up ugly girls in a nightclub.

In a heated exchange on the flagship political show the Queens Park Rangers midfielder told a newly elected female Ukip MEP her party was just the least unattractive option.

To gasps from the audience, he told her: ‘You won the election? You won seats in the European Parliament that nobody really cares about'.

‘All you represent to me as Ukip is the best of a bad bunch. If I’m somewhere and there are four really ugly girls and I’m thinking she is not the worst, that is all you represent to us.’

Out of his comfort zone: More used to kicking a ball in front of huge crowds, Barton admitted he was nervous

Louise Bours, an MEP for north west England, angrily responded, saying: ‘What an offensive thing to say. The ignorance that you spout it illustrates that footballers’ brains are in their feet.’

Mr Barton blamed his remarks on being nervous, saying he'd prefer 'Wembley and 87,000 any day of the week', but his performance has been called a 'new low' for the show.

Viewers last night criticised the BBC for its choice of panellists - who also included former newspaper editor Piers Morgan - as MPs from both sides of the political spectrum condemned the programme and Barton’s joke.

Stuart Andrew, Conservative MP for Pudsey, Horsforth and Aireborough, tweeted: ‘BBC Question Time has become a joke.’

And Lucy Powell, Labour’s Shadow Minister for Childcare and Children, added: ‘Very unfortunate analogy there Joey.’
Joey Barton: Voting Ukip like picking the best of four ugly girls

Another Twitter user wrote: ‘Well Question Time has hit a new low with Joey Barton on the panel.’

While one posted: ‘Piers Morgan and Joey Barton on Question Time, wow it feels like some kind of Comic Relief spin-off joke.’

An audience member later confronted Barton about his remark. saying: 'I was with you in some of the things you said (but) I think the analogy you made of four ugly girls, that's going to be on Twitter tonight and tomorrow, you'll be buried for it.'

Barton replied: 'I do apologise - I couldn't think of a better one, this is the first time I have ever done it (Question Time).

'As Louise rightly pointed out my brains are in my feet, which is an equally offensive statement.

'Maybe I was a little bit nervous, I apologise.'

Afterwards Barton took to Twitter, telling fellow panellist, former News of the World editor Piers Morgan: 'I may have upset one or two women with an ill conceived metaphor. £imnewtothis.'

He later added: 'Should have left it at 'Best of a bad bunch' Ah well £imnewtothis @bbcquestiontime.'

A BBC spokesman said: 'Joey Barton was robustly challenged on his comments by both the panel and the audience. He apologised on the programme, putting his comment down to nerves. Question Time often features journalists, comedians, campaigners and other public figures to add a different perspective to the panel.'

Barton, who was called 'football's philosopher king' at the start of the show, is well known for holding court on political issues on Twitter. But he has a checkered history on and off the football pitch.

Mixed reviews: The QPR midfielder's performance on the BBC led to a huge reaction Twitter, good and bad

Earlier yesterday, the Liberal Democrats criticised the BBC for not having a representative from their party despite speculation over the leadership of Nick Clegg leading the week’s headlines.

Its press office aired its frustration at not being including on the show – which last night had representatives from the Conservatives, Labour and Ukip - by tweeting: ‘@bbcquestiontime have refused to take a Liberal Democrat panellist tonight.’

A BBC spokesman said: ‘The Question Time panel is chosen carefully across the series and the Liberal Democrat party has appeared on every edition of Question time in the last six weeks.

‘As with the other political parties, the Liberal Democrats will again be invited to appear on the programme in the near future.’

Barton has a controversial history, which includes being jailed for six months in 2008 for assault and affray.

He was captured on CCTV in Liverpool punching one man 20 times before an attack which left a teenage boy with broken teeth.

He also once stubbed a cigar into the eye of a team-mate at a Christmas party.

BARTON'S JOURNEY: PREMIER LEAGUE IDOL, PRISON AND QUESTION TIME
Ousmane Dabo

DECEMBER 2004: Stubs lit cigar in the eye of young team-mate Jamie Tandy during City's Christmas party. Fined six weeks' wages by the club. Forced to pay four weeks' salary - approximately £60,000 - immediately, with a further two weeks suspended for a year. Tandy later sued Barton, winning £65,000 in damages.

JULY 2005: Involved in altercation with a 15-year-old Everton fan at City's team hotel in Bangkok during a pre-season tour. Fined eight weeks' wages by City after being found guilty of gross misconduct.

SEPTEMBER 2006: Drops his shorts in the direction of Everton fans following City's 1-1 draw at Goodison Park.

MAY 2007: Suspended by City after training-ground altercation with Ousmane Dabo, right, which leaves his team-mate needing hospital treatment. Charged with assault, and on July 1 2008 receives a four-month suspended jail sentence. Also punished by FA with a 12-match ban - six matches of which are suspended and a £25,000 fine.

DECEMBER 2007 - After ten pints and five bottles of beer he was arrested in Liverpool city centre after a late-night incident and later charged with common assault and affray. He was caught on CCTV knocking his unnamed victim to the ground, before straddling him and punching the man up to 20 times.

At the time of the assault Barton was on bail for the attack on Ousmane Dabo.

MAY 2008 Jailed for six months and sent to Strangeways after admitting common assault and affray.

NOVEMBER 2010: Punches Blackburn winger Morten Gamst Pedersen during a 2-1 defeat for Newcastle at St James' Park.

JANUARY 2012: Unleashes an online tirade against the Football Association, labelling them an "Orwellian organisation" in need of a 'drastic shake-up'.

MAY 2012: Sent off for elbowing Carlos Tevez on the final day of the season at Manchester City. Knees Sergio Aguero, sending the striker to the ground, and attempts to headbutt Vincent Kompany before being ushered off the field. In light of criticism he launched an expletive-laden Twitter attack on Alan Shearer before turning on Match of the Day presenter Gary Lineker, saying: 'back under your stone you odious little toad'

OCTOBER 2013: Having become more high profile because of his outspoken comments, Barton claims Sir Alex Ferguson 'couldn't put on a coaching session to save his life' and describes why the English national team is 's***'.

MAY 2014: Days after winning promotion back to the Premier League with QPR, appears on Question Time to mixed reviews.

[steevo]

Howdy Teddy, I've been busy with some big changes and took some time off from Internet communication. Hope you're well...

I have a couple questions? (Even the Conservative representative...) It seems I've read more frequently the Tories being referred as the "Conservative" (capital C) party. Have I missed something? I just don't remember the automatic: Tory = Conservative.

Also, what do you think the chances are the BBC will not be supported by the tax payer? I ask because I'm wondering if they've dodged the proverbial bullet?

[Teddy Bear]

Steevo Great to see you - been missing you.
Hope whatever changes you've been involved in have gone well.

Tory and Conservative are interchangeable words for the same party. Just looking it up I see Tory predates Conservative. I always thought of Tory as a nickname for a member of the Conservative party.

Regarding your final question - jury's out
If the government makes an ethical and moral decision then they will privatise the BBC.
Could you make a prediction about whether a modern Western government will be ethical and moral? I'm certainly a sceptic based on much of their mealy mouthed record.

If they believe it will serve their own purpose to maintain the fraud that is the BBC then they'll keep it going.
I would say in that case, down the road there's going to be a revolution. More and more people are getting sick of the status quo. The UKIP support was a good indication of that.

[steevo]

Yeah it's just sickening. I hope you're right and enough people revolt to force real "change". I'd like to say more but it's probably not that wise. But Jefferson said: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

[Teddy Bear]

The downside to it is that the reluctance of the PC mindset to properly engage, and mostly prohibit debate, means that there will be radicals to the other extreme. Good balance seems only to occur for a brief time while the see-saw goes from one side to the other, instead of being maintained as the status quo.

[steevo]

Well to change the subject without involving much detail, I'm now living alone and looking at a future I suppose I knew could happen any time without notice because I know that's life. I've recently sold a home with many beloved memories and have moved from our west coast of Washington state to the east and North Carolina where today I put a down payment on a new home and hope to move in by the 10th of June. It's funny because I figured the previous one had about 1400 square feet and I would only need a little over half that now, but I got one that's actually a little more though a lot less expensive (I'm sure it's fate). It seems the large interior will give me a sense of space or freedom I can better maintain sanity. I can hear the birds better at this place too and walk around inside in the raw.

Anyway I'm glad to be able to say hi to you again. If there's one consolation for the BBC to continue so will old Teddy Bear, though I do wonder

[charmbrights]

Actually, I thought there was some considerable truth in Barton's statement, "You won seats in the European Parliament that nobody really cares about." The truth of this statement is visible in the fact that the UK's representatives have less than 10% of the seats in it and the majority of the rest are basically pushing for a dirigiste combined Fourth Reich and Fifth Republic.

Easily the overall winners in the UK at this election were the DCP with well over 60% and almost twice as many voters as all the other parties put together.

Also criticising UKIP for having no domestic policies (or worse, inventing such policies and then decrying them) was really silly - this was not a domestic election; it was a EUROPEAN parliament election.


PS DCP = "Don't Care Party".

[Teddy Bear]

Steevo - I can well understand that this period would be somewhat 'traumatic' for most and I wish you the very best of transition into your new home and surroundings. I hope the new beginnings that come your way in time makes everything more positive than can ever have been otherwise.
As you know - you're always welcome to PM me, and whatever happens we'll always keep in touch.

I was actually thinking today about what if the government did privatise the BBC. It would be tempting to record the changes that the BBC would be forced to make, or else monitor their downfall - like chronicling karma in action.
Would be hard not to gloat though. While I could think we've earned it, I want to avoid feeding a negative mindset within myself.
Sure would be a time to rejoice though.

[Teddy Bear]

Jun 1, 2014 7:48:38 GMT charmbrights said:

Actually, I thought there was some considerable truth in Barton's statement, "You won seats in the European Parliament that nobody really cares about." The truth of this statement is visible in the fact that the UK's representatives have less than 10% of the seats in it and the majority of the rest are basically pushing for a dirigiste combined Fourth Reich and Fifth Republic.

I would say that 'if nobody really cared about it', why then did they take the trouble to go out and vote?
People wanted to make a statement, and the likes of this idiot trying to dismiss it is precisely why so many of the public are looking elsewhere.
It's reassuring to hear in a recent poll that many who voted for UKIP have already confirmed that they plan to do so again in the general election.

[steevo]

Rejoicing should only be the beginning. I'd love to see enough of the "Conservative" party (egged on by UKIP of course) to have trials for treason with a lot of very rotten human beings, ending with life behind bars! If that happened here, from the President on down to the many influential media players, I'd be ecstatic.

[Teddy Bear]

The continuing pretence or self delusion of the left that their policies are motivated by higher human values, in defiance of reality and the chaos being created by them is creating more and more frustration and anger with those increasingly affected by them. It's like being imprisoned for a crime one didn't do, and watching the quality of one's life being eroded. It must eventually explode.
Trials for treason? If they're lucky!

I see your president thinks accepting Hamas and working with them will achieve a positive solution.
He betrays every value achieved by rational and intelligent human beings. But we've seen it coming for a long time.
Only question is whether he does it purposefully, or he really is that ignorant?

[steevo]

I don't think he's that ignorant, the fact is he doesn't like the Jews of Israel. But he's been flouting abuse of policy and authority without serious media questioning and accountability for some time. After all, he's not a Republican and most of our video media with the exception of Fox will excuse and keep his back. What he is, is largely indifferent to human life and if he thinks he can do something because of deep-seeded personal resentment, hate, and/or the immediate emotionalist image value, he will. Such as trading 5 of the most heinous Taliban terrorists in captivity for a man who may be a deserter, bypassing Congressional law. There's a lot he's done and in the midst trying now which will destroy the fabric and foundations of this country.

[Teddy Bear]

I was listening to Nick Ferrari on LBC Radio this morning and he was talking about how stupid Obama sounds now following the speech he gave praising Bergdahl, until it emerged that he was a traitor. Would you say those in the US who voted him in are beginning to think they were wrong?

[steevo]

No, I wouldn't, at least for most. I would say they are much more stupid.

[charmbrights]

Jun 1, 2014 20:24:50 GMT Teddy Bear said:

I would say that 'if nobody really cared about it', why then did they take the trouble to go out and vote?
...

By a majority of about 2 to 1 the UK's electorate did NOT vote. I rest my case.

[Teddy Bear]

The numbers in the UK who voted in the EU elections were about average for every one since 1979. So no surprise there.

The unusual event was the following:

The popular vote was won by the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) – the first time a political party other than the Labour Party and Conservative Party has won the popular vote in a national election since the 1906 general election.[5][6] It is also the first time a party other than the Labour and Conservatives won the largest number of seats in a national election since the December 1910 general election.[7][8][9]

The Conservatives, the party currently in governing coalition with the Liberal Democrats, were pushed into third place for the first time in a European Parliament election, the same position as Labour in the previous 2009 European Parliament election.[10] It was also the first time since 1984 that the largest opposition party failed to win the European Parliament election.

So of those voting, over a quarter showed their preference for UKIP, the first time in history, and handed a clear message to the other parties.
If you think that's unimportant and something that can be sneered at, as the other parties and their supporters pretend to do, that's fine.

[charmbrights]

Jun 8, 2014 20:34:22 GMT Teddy Bear said:

...
So of those voting, over a quarter showed their preference for UKIP, the first time in history, and handed a clear message to the other parties.
If you think that's unimportant and something that can be sneered at, as the other parties and their supporters pretend to do, that's fine.

I was not sneering. I do think that when we have an election which is for the whole of the UK (i.e. General Election or European Election) the turnout can be used to assess the importance the electorate place in the election.

Election % turnout since 1945
Year      General    European
x.1974   72.8
1979      76           32.35
1983      72.7
1984                     32.57
1987      75.3
1989                     36.37
1992       77.7
1994                     36.37
1997      71.4
1999                     24
2001      59.4
2004                    38.52
2005      61.4
2009                    34.7
2010      65.1
2014                    34.19

Source: House of Commons Research Papers 01/37, 01/54, 05/33 & 10/36 and www.europarl.europa.eu

I still claim that this shows that half of the population of the UK who normally vote in elections are not interested in the European Parliament.

For the record I did vote, and my vote went to UKIP.

[Teddy Bear]

charmbrights said:
For the record I did vote, and my vote went to UKIP

Good on ya
I'm curious if you have ever voted before in the EU election or was this the first time, and if so if you have voted UKIP before?

My feeling is that most people don't think there is much point in voting in the EU elections as regardless of who gets voted in nothing much seems to change. Orders come from Brussels and we follow them.
I can understand that the other parties want to diminish what might be the consequences that this time the majority voted UKIP, and it creates some optimism for change in the future.

[charmbrights]

Jun 9, 2014 19:36:49 GMT Teddy Bear said:

...
I'm curious if you have ever voted before in the EU election or was this the first time?
...

I have voted in every EU election since I voted "NO" in 1975, and always for anti-Fourth Reich candidates/parties.

Jun 9, 2014 19:36:49 GMT Teddy Bear said:

...
and if so if you have voted UKIP before?
...

That is complicated. I live in the People's Republic of South Wales where the choice is usually between Labour (of the Dennis Skinner, Bob Crowe, and Arthur Scargill variety) and Plaid Cymru so my voting is usually tactical. For the Assembly we have individual and party list votes where I can do whatever I fancy on the individual as the same man will get in whatever I do, but the party lists I take very seriously.

In the local unitary authority the situation is such that when our local councillor died a little while ago his daughter stood as candidate (selected by the local Labour Party long before his death) and won by 900+ votes to 43, so there are rarely more than two candidates.

[Teddy Bear]

Thanks Charm.

You confirm that for many who voted for UKIP, it gave them the first opportunity to make a clear statement, regardless of how things changed on the ground for the time being. I would take some optimism from this, and the fact that the other parties are scared.

[charmbrights]

Jun 10, 2014 16:07:13 GMT Teddy Bear said:

Thanks Charm.

You confirm that for many who voted for UKIP, it gave them the first opportunity to make a clear statement, regardless of how things changed on the ground for the time being. I would take some optimism from this, and the fact that the other parties are scared.

I can only speak for myself - I have no way of knowing what motivates other voters.