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Post by charmbrights on Feb 22, 2015 12:45:15 GMT
Programme title: How We Got To Now with Steven Johnson
Transmission date: 21/02/2015
Complaint category: Factual error or inaccuracy
Complaint title: False information masquerading as fact
Complaint description:
Steven Johnson falsely asserted that "railway time" was invented in the USA in the early 1880s. That is not true, as "railway time" and a standard time for the whole of the UK was in statute law before William Allen started work on standardising it in the USA.
On 22 September 1847, the Railway Clearing House decreed that "GMT be adopted at all stations as soon as the General Post Office permitted it". By January 1848, according to Bradshaws Railway Guide, the railways that had adopted London Time included the London and South Western, London and North Western, Caledonian Railways, the Midland, the Chester and Birkenhead, the Lancaster and Carlisle, the East Lancashire and the York and North Midland.
On 2 August 1880, when the Statutes (Definition of Time) Act received the Royal Assent, a unified standard time for the whole of Great Britain achieved legal status.
In 1881 the railway companies in the USA agreed to the idea of unified time to be investigated by William Frederick Allen. He proposed replacing the 50 different railway times with five time zones. With the support of nearly all railway companies, most cities and influential observatories such as Yale and Harvard, this collaborative approach led to standard railway time being introduced at noon on 18 November 1883. This was not incorporated into US federal law until 1918.
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Post by Teddy Bear on Feb 22, 2015 17:05:56 GMT
You clearly have a lot of knowledge on the subject Charm.
This might be one complaint where the BBC admit making a mistake. I can't see that they are protecting any of their political allegiances or usual agendas.
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Post by charmbrights on Feb 23, 2015 9:48:41 GMT
You clearly have a lot of knowledge on the subject Charm. I know I am a gricer. This might be one complaint where the BBC admit making a mistake. I can't see that they are protecting any of their political allegiances or usual agendas. I doubt it. There is a detectable undercurrent in all their factual programmes that nothing is quite authentic unless it is attested to by an American expert. Even English history is often explained to the audience by US academics. |
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Post by Teddy Bear on Feb 23, 2015 13:19:15 GMT
Had to look it up, I see it means 'keen railway enthusiast'  There is a detectable undercurrent in all their factual programmes that nothing is quite authentic unless it is attested to by an American expert. Even English history is often explained to the audience by US academics. That's an interesting perspective, and not one I've been familiar with. I'd be interested to see how they respond to your complaint Charm. Well done mate. |
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Post by charmbrights on Feb 24, 2015 12:44:41 GMT
... I'd be interested to see how they respond to your complaint Charm. Don't you mean "if"? |
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Post by Teddy Bear on Feb 24, 2015 13:16:07 GMT
Perhaps so But even ignoring your complaint would indicate their mindset. |
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Post by charmbrights on Feb 24, 2015 15:56:36 GMT
There is a detectable undercurrent in all their factual programmes that nothing is quite authentic unless it is attested to by an American expert. Even English history is often explained to the audience by US academics. That's an interesting perspective, and not one I've been familiar with. On Radio 4 at 15:00 on 24th Feb 2015 (still ongoing as I write) the history of art in Birmingham (among other things) is being discussed and the BBC say: Dr Meaghan Clarke, a US citizen, has degrees from the University of Guelph (BA Hons), the University of Carleton (MA), and the University of Sussex (DPhil). Dr Clarke was the recipient of a Leverhulme Special Research Fellowship (2002-2004), has been a Fellow at the Harry Ransom Center, University of Austin, Texas and has received funding from the British Academy. Professor Peter Marsh has been on the faculty of the Maxwell School of Syracuse University, New York since 1962 and certainly sounds American, although his Ph.D. is from Cambridge Univarsity. They were the experts talking about 19th century art on Birmingham. Oh, and they don't mean Birmingham, Alabama! |
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Post by Teddy Bear on Feb 24, 2015 17:04:48 GMT
Oh, and they don't mean Birmingham, Alabama! Thinking about it, we can tell a lot about a person from their accent. It's as if we file certain ways of speaking into more and less believable dependent on the topic discussed. I can believe a soft spoken American would have a more convincing effect than say an Australian, or South African, simply because of the qualities we ascribe to each. Perhaps the BBC are aware of this HAL effect (from 2001 Space Odyssey) |
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Post by charmbrights on Apr 10, 2015 8:39:09 GMT
You clearly have a lot of knowledge on the subject Charm. This might be one complaint where the BBC admit making a mistake. I can't see that they are protecting any of their political allegiances or usual agendas. ... I'd be interested to see how they respond to your complaint Charm. Don't you mean "if"? I admit it, you were right and I was wrong. This was received today (10th April). |
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Post by Teddy Bear on Apr 10, 2015 14:12:03 GMT
I can't find a clip of this programme that would indicate how accurate their response is Charm.
What did you think of their reply?
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Post by charmbrights on Apr 10, 2015 16:38:03 GMT
What did you think of their reply? My complaint was that the impression I got was that Steven Johnson falsely asserted that "standard time" in adjacent towns was invented in the USA by William Allen. I cannot offer the exact words used, but there was certainly no mention of "railway time" being formally standardised in the UK some 35 years earlier. |
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Post by Teddy Bear on Apr 10, 2015 16:51:19 GMT
They at least agreed that the UK first introduced 'railway time' even if it wasn't mentioned in the programme. Also they see that they should have made clear this was American experience of time. On this it's as much 'a victory' as you're likely to get |
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Post by thehighlandrebel on Apr 10, 2015 17:43:55 GMT
Variable longitudinal time was first used by the Phoenicians thousands of years ago with their meridian at Tyre.
They needed this for navigation as they sailed far out into the Atlantic, around Africa and to northern Europe including Britain.
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Post by charmbrights on Apr 11, 2015 10:16:46 GMT
Variable longitudinal time was first used by the Phoenicians thousands of years ago with their meridian at Tyre. They needed this for navigation as they sailed far out into the Atlantic, around Africa and to northern Europe including Britain. Yes - and sailors have always known it, but the general public had not realised the problems this causes at the sort of speeds that railways introduced. |
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Post by thehighlandrebel on Apr 11, 2015 13:11:01 GMT
The astrolabe was an ancient computer used for navigation. What is interesting is it was a Hebrew invention. What is even more interesting is that the BBC recognises it as a Hebrew instrument despite them at other times telling us that Israel /Hebrews never existed and are only modern day illegal occupiers of Philistine land. www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/aU8eDjPFTQy35wPaAhSLGg |
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Post by Teddy Bear on Apr 11, 2015 18:06:26 GMT
Reading the article you link to they don't actually say it was a Hebrew invention. They actually credit Islam for a lot of it: Astrolabes were first made around 150 BC in Greece. They were further developed by Islamic scholars and were often used for determining the exact direction of Mecca. The astrolabe finally came into Western Europe via Spain, which was conquered by Islamic forces in AD 711.According to the BBC the only reason there is Hebrew writing on it is This astrolabe is inscribed with words in hebrew and Arabic, indicating it was probably made for a Jewish scholar in Spain.Notice the lower case for Hebrew in their article but a big A for Arabic. Why they have to speculate as to origin is beyond me but they clearly are crediting Islam - so what's new?  |
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